Isaac Mizrahi 谈时尚与创意
我有一些关于睡眠的问题。我睡得不多。我想谈谈关于这方面的事。睡得不多算是一个优点，经过多年与睡眠的抗争后，它变成了一个可怕伤害之类的东西。现在我确实很喜欢某种程度的熬夜。但多年来我一直熬夜。我想我的创意，很大部份是被这样的失眠状况所触发。我清醒的躺着，思考着一些想法，漫无目标的闲逛。我多半常习惯在夜间散步。白天我走在路上，尾随着我认为看起来有趣的人。（笑声）
有时－事实上，有一次就被登在《纽约邮报》的八卦娱乐版上。我尾随着一个家伙，反正看起来就像是那么回事。但事实上我就只是跟着他，因为他穿了一双实在是很棒的鞋子。所以我就跟着这个家伙，拍下了他鞋子的照片，彼此道谢后就分道扬镳。但我经常这么做。事实上，我想我的设计理念，很多都来自于眼睛的错觉。因为我觉得，到处都有这么多的影像，这么多的衣服。而唯一使我感兴趣的，是那些看上去稍有瑕疵的，当然，或是非常，非常令人惊奇的。经常地，我钻进一辆计程车。然后我看到一个衬衫上的洞，或是某些看起来很有趣的东西，或拥有一些美感，或功能是我从未见过的。我就会要车子停下，走出汽车。看到事实上并没有一个洞，只不过是我眼睛的错觉。那只是一个阴影，你知道。如果确实有一个洞，我就会想，喔，该死，已经有人想到这个点子了。已经有人做出这个瑕疵，我就不能这样做了。
我不知道灵感来自何方。我不是从研究中得到灵感的。我并非从研究中得到必需的灵感。事实上，我一生中做过最有趣的事，是今年圣诞节在纽约古根汉美术馆。我与来自茱莉亚音乐学院的美丽乐团，一起读了《彼得与狼》。我确实喜欢那些旁白，所以我读了它。而我见到了这位我喜爱的聪明评论家。这位女子，Joan Acocella，是我的朋友。她来到后台，说，哦，Isaac，你知道的，谈谈斯大林主义吧！谈一谈，你知道，就像在俄罗斯30年代时期。我说，我怎么会知道斯大林主义？我知道关于狼和鸟，他吃了鸟，然后在最后你听到，你听到鸟叫，或者一些什么的。
所以我并不真的了解那些。我并不是真的…。其实我做自己的那种研究。如果我受托为18世纪的歌剧做戏服，或类似的东西，我会做很多研究。因为它很有趣，并不是因为那是我应该做的。我深受电影的启发。电影中的颜色和光照产生颜色的方式。从后而来的光线投影，或来自光线的投影，使颜色看起来很不可思议。我就让你们看一下这些影片剪辑。我晚上熬夜看电影，多半是看电影中的女子。我想，你知道，她们的角色，以及你必需知道你女儿看些什么。因为我会观察女性一贯被呈现的方式。不管是用稍稍炫耀的方式，或是他们多少有点，带有讽刺意味的炫耀。或不管她们是否有点儿被贬低，或带有讽刺意味的贬低。
我总是会将目光放回色彩上。色彩是触发我许多灵感的东西。在自然界中我所找到的色彩很少。虽然置于人造色彩旁的自然色彩显得如此美丽。所以这就是我所做的，我很深入的研究了色彩。但多数情况下，我想，我怎样才能做出像娜妲丽华一样美丽的影像？我怎样才能做出像葛丽泰·嘉宝一样美的事物？我是说，这毕竟是不可能的。因此，就是这使我晚上睡不着觉，我想你懂的。我想告诉你，我也会，我常去拜访占星学家及算塔罗牌。这是触发我许多灵感的另一项事物。有人说，哦，这样做。占星学家要我做些什么，所以我就做了。（笑声）
在我大约21岁时，一位占星师告诉我说，我将与我的梦中情人相遇。他的名字是Eric。所以多年来，我到酒吧去，只要遇到名字叫Eric的人，就立刻弓起背来。（笑声）有时，当我实在是很绝望时，我就会走进一个房间，就像这样，大喊Eric。一看到任何转过身的人，我就会向他飞奔而去。（笑声）很久以前我去算了这个很有趣的塔罗牌。他抽出的最后一张牌，代表我命中注定的家伙。像是戴着硬草帽拄着拐杖的。有点像是戴着护膝，像是一位吟游歌手，对吧？我想给你们看这影片剪辑。因为我会做这一类疯狂的事，当我在做歌舞表演时。所以，就看一下吧。非常令人尴尬。（影片）谢谢你，我们会达成你的任何要求。
这个节目的名称是来自于我将告诉你的，关于我母亲的故事。这摘录自她的一句话。我和这个家伙约会，对吧？这是非常快乐的，我发誓。我跟这个家伙约会大约一年了。我们对彼此都很认真。所以我们决定邀请双方父母一起吃饭。而我们，你知道，将他们彼此介绍。我母亲多少有点，对他母亲非常敏感。她似乎对所有另类生活方式都有点存疑。你知道，就是同性恋。所以我母亲有点生气。她转向她，说：“你没搞错吧，他们一起过着非常棒的生活。他们外出吃饭，看表演。”他们外出吃饭，看表演。（笑声）这就是节目的名称，他们外出吃饭，他们－。我会把这句话当成墓志铭。“他们外出吃饭，看表演”。
因此，剪辑这些片段时，我没胆将我在Joe's Pub酒吧的演唱片段剪辑进来。所以你可能需要去查看一下那些关于我的事。因为它是令人困窘的，那种感觉……。我不知道该怎么说。我想，尽可能不让自己那么舒适是一件好事。至少，对我来说。如果我一直只做一件事。我不知道，我会感到非常非常的厌烦，我很容易感到厌烦。我不是说我每件事都做的很好。我只是说我做了很多事情，仅此而已。我尽量不回顾过去。除了，我想，这就是我每天晚上熬夜做的事。就像是，回顾和思考，你是如何愚弄了自己。不过我想这没什么。因为如果你做很多事，你觉得每一件事都很糟糕，而不只是一件事。你不会专对某件事感觉特别糟。是的，确实如此。
我告诉你的下一件事，是关于为歌剧设计的戏服。我与不同的编舞家一起工作。我常与Twyla Tharp合作，也常与Mark Morris合作，他是我最好的朋友之一。我与他一起合作为三部歌剧作设计。最近的一部是《亚瑟王》。我一直跟舞蹈界渊源颇深，从青少年时期就是。我进入表演艺术高中就读，当时是一名演员。我很多朋友都是芭蕾舞者。我依然不知道灵感来自何方。我不知道它从何而来。当还是个孩子时，我就开始制作人偶。也许这就是整个灵感的起源。人偶，是的。然后进入表演艺术高中。我就是在高中时，认识了一些舞者和做表演。
就这样，在那儿我对设计产生了兴趣。我进入帕森设计学院就读，然后开始设计师的职业生涯。我并不真的把自己当成一名设计师，我也并不真的认为自己是一名时装设计师。老实说，我实在不知道该怎么称呼自己。我觉得自己是…我不知道我认为自己是怎样的人。就是这样。（笑声）不过，我必须说，关于总是感到有些厌烦，我认为这对时装设计师是非常重要的事。你总是需要对一切事物稍稍感到厌倦。如果你没有，就必须假装一下。（笑声）
不过，我真的有点厌倦了一切。我总是告诉我的伙伴Marissa Gardini，她安排了一切。她安排了一切，让每件事进行。她完成了所有的事。我总是告诉她，我发现自己花很多时间玩电脑桥牌游戏。花太多时间玩电脑桥牌游戏，就像这样。大约十年前，我认为世界上最不无聊的地方就是电视台。一个电视节目，一场脱口秀。因为这是所有我喜爱的事物齐聚一堂。如果觉得无聊你可以做另一件事。做另一件事并谈论它，对吧？
所以，我有了这个电视节目。这是我人生进程中非常，非常，非常大的一部份。事实上，可以转一下剪辑片段吗？这是我最喜欢的Rosie影片剪辑。
Isaac Mizrahi:我们在摄影棚后台。嗨，在这儿。
Rosie O'Donnell: 哈啰，Ben。
IM: 你看她这样多可爱，就只是把头发披在背后。
男子: 她母亲说：“美极了！”
IM: 哇，美极了！好吧，所以，现在我应该坐哪里？我不会插手的。我不希望，Okay，来吧！
你会紧张吗，Ashleigh？
Ashleigh：紧张什么？
A：剪发？永远不会。我从不认为我剪发会有紧张的时候。
你看上去已经非常可爱了。
你喜欢吗？好。
你对看起来可爱有没有什么疑虑？你想要看起来很可爱。
ROD：当然，我想看起来可爱。
IM：只是确认一下，因为有些人想要看起来丑一点。
ROD：不，我才不想。
IM:你听过一些有钱人。他们有孩子，而孩子们最后总是会有点，就像是捅一些篓子。你知道我的意思吗？必须想一些方法来解决，Rosie。如果仅因为你非常有钱，赫赫有名，是否就表示你不应该有孩子？因为你知道他们最后总是会捅一些篓子。
ROD：不，但它意味着你优先得做的事，是为他们的福祉着想。但是你必须作出自己的决定。我的孩子7岁大，谁知道他们将来，14岁时会不会就到看守所报到？然后他们会播放这个剪辑：“我是这么好的一位母亲。”天啊，这是我剪过最短的发型了。
IM:看起来不错，是吗？
A：问一下，你的头发－
ROD：不！它很棒－我真是疯了！
IM:我想这边应该贴下面一点。
A：哦，不，我们只是试一下。
ROD：我们只是尝试看看。
IM:你疯了吗？你看起来好可爱。
ROD：不，我喜欢它。这是全新的我。
IM:哦，太棒了！
ROD：一团乱的Rosie。哇！
顺便聊一下，世界上最不无聊的事。我是指，就像是把一个已经很可爱的人弄成这样。这不无聊，事实上这没什么，但它一点都不无趣。有一天我读到一段很棒的话，就是：“时尚能让你感觉好极了，因为它让你暂时忘记将会死亡的事实。”对吗？然后我意识到，那段话是我写在网站上的。然后像这样，这段话是我说的。然后我想，噢，我说了一些什么，就在一次采访中。我忘了我说过那些，但这是真的。
我想让你们看这最后的影片剪辑，因为它是我最后的告别。我也经常烹饪，我喜爱烹饪。我经常把一些事物当成食物来看。就像我说，哦，你会煮一只腐坏的鸡吗？你会如何处理一件破旧的衣服？你怎么会展示一件破旧的衣服？我总是把事物跟厨房联想在一起。因此，我想这就是一切的总结。一切都归因于它。
来看一下吧！这是我一直在做的事。因为我认为这是世界上最有趣的事。它，就像这个网站，里面有各式各样的东西。这是一个复合式的网站。事实上，我们像做电视节目一样拍摄这些片段。这是世界上我最喜欢的事物之一。它是二月初才开始有的，所以谁知道。老话一句，我不是说它很棒，我只是说它并不无趣，不是吗？这是最后一段影片。
IM：告诉你，我常常做奶油薄饼和奶油松饼。
厨师：真的吗？
IM:是的，但我就是找不到真正的奶酪。
厨师：喔！
IM:你在Citarella超市找不到奶酪，找不到的。
厨师：你找不到？
IM：全都是低脂牛奶。
厨师：不，但就是用那些啊！
IM：就是用那些？
厨师：哦，你不知道吗？让我告诉你一件事。让我告诉你一些有趣的事。
IM:你知道什么？别笑。这不好笑。仅仅因为我不知道，所有－所有关于奶酪的事。对不起，什么？
厨师：嗯，这就是关键。让我告诉你关键在哪。早期他们制造奶油，你知道怎么做奶油吗？
厨师：做成奶油？
IM:是的，没错。
厨师：所以你拿醇厚的高脂牛奶，就是奶油。你搅拌直到它分离成凝乳和水。产生的液体事实上是透明的。如果你试着过度搅拌生奶油，就会做出奶酪。这正是以往所制造的奶酪，人们用这个来烘焙所有食物。现在，你买到的奶酪，其实是低脂或脱脂牛奶。
IM:对不起，我不知道。好吗？
厨师：他会这么想，是因为奶酪是如此醇厚美味。
IM:是的，没错。所以谁想的到这是低脂的呢？
嗯，就是这样。非常感谢。
TED快乐。在这里的感觉是如此美好。我喜欢它。我喜欢它。我爱它。
谢谢，再见。
I have, like, a thing about sleeping. I don't sleep that much, and I've come to this thing about, like, not sleeping much as being a great virtue, after years of kind of battling it as being a terrible detriment, or something. And now I really like sort of sitting up, you know. But for years I've been sitting up and I think that, like, my creativity is greatly motivated by this kind of insomnia. I lie awake. I think thoughts. I walk aimlessly. Sometimes I used to walk more at night. I walk during the day and I follow people who I think look interesting. (Laughter)
And sometimes -- actually, once it was on Page Six in The Post, that I was cruising this guy, like, sort of, whatever, but I was actually just following because he had these really great shoes on. And so I was following this guy. And I took a picture of his shoes, and we thanked each other and just went on our way. But I do that all the time. As a matter of fact, I think a lot of my design ideas come from mistakes and tricks of the eye. Because I feel like, you know, there are so many images out there, so many clothes out there. And the only ones that look interesting to me are the ones that look slightly mistaken, of course, or very, very surprising. And often, I'm driving in a taxi and I see a hole in a shirt, or something that looks very interesting or pretty or functional in some way that I'd never seen happen before. And so I'd make the car stop, and I'd get out of the car and walk, and see that in fact there wasn't a hole, but it was trick of my eye, it was a shadow, you know. Or if there was a hole I'd think like, oh damn, there was actually someone thought of that thought already. Someone made that mistake already so I can't do it anymore.
I don't know where inspiration comes from. It does not come for me from research. I don't get necessarily inspired by research. As a matter of fact, one of the most fun things I've ever, ever done in my whole life, was this Christmas season at the Guggenheim in New York. I read Peter and the Wolf with this beautiful band from Juilliard. And I did like, you know, the narrator, and I read it. And I saw this really smart critic who I love. This woman, Joan Acocella, who's a friend of mine, and she came backstage and she said, oh, you know, Isaac, did you know that, talking about Stalinism, and talking about, you know, like the '30s in Russia. And I said, how do I know about Stalinism? I know about a wolf and a bird and, you know, he ate the bird, and then in the end you hear, you know, you hear the bird squeaking, or something, you know?
So I don't really know that. I don't really -- actually I do my own kind of research, you know. If I'm commissioned to do the costumes for an 18th-century opera, or something like that, I will do a lot of research, because it's interesting, not because it's because what I'm supposed to do. I'm very, very, very inspired by movies. The color of movies and the way light makes the colors, light from behind the projection, or light from the projection, makes the colors look so impossible. And anyway, roll this little clip, I'll just show you. I sit up at night and I watch movies and I watch women in movies a lot. And I think about, you know, their roles, and about you have to like watch what your daughters look at. Because I look at the way women are portrayed all the time. Whether they're kind of glorified in this way, or whether they're kind of, you know, ironically glorified. or whether they're, you know, sort of denigrated, or ironically denigrated.
I go back to color all the time. Color is something that motivates me a lot It's rarely color that I find in nature, although, you know, juxtaposed next to artificial color natural color is so beautiful. So that's what I do. I study color a lot. But for the most part, I think, like, how can I ever make anything that is as beautiful as that image of Natalie Wood? How can I ever make anything as beautiful as Greta Garbo? I mean, that's just not possible, you know. And so that's what makes me lie awake at night, I guess, you know. I want to show you -- I'm also like a big -- I go to astrologers and tarot card readers often, and that's another thing that motivates me a lot. People say, oh, do that. And astrologer tells me to do something. So I do it. (Laughter)
When I was about 21, an astrologer told me that I was going to meet the man of my dreams, and that his name was going to be Eric, right? So, you know, for years I would go to bars and sort of anyone I met who's name was Eric I was humping immediately, or something. (Laughter) And there were times when I was actually so desparate I would just, you know, walk into a room and just go like, Eric. And anybody who would turn around I would, sort of, make a beeline for. (Laughter) And I had this really interesting tarot reading a long time ago. The last card he pulled, which was representing my destiny was this guy on like a straw boater with a cane and you know, sort of spats and this, you know, a minstrel singer, right? I want to show you this clip because I do this kind of crazy thing where I do a cabaret act. So actually, check this out. Very embarrassing. (Video): Thank you. We can do anything you ask.
The name of the show is based on this story that I have to tell you about my mother. It's sort of an excerpt from a quote of hers. I was dating this guy, right? And this has to do with being happy, I swear. I was dating this guy and it was going on for about a year, right. And we were getting serious, so we decided to invite them all to dinner, our parents. And we, you know, sort of introduced them to each other. My mother was, sort of, very sensitive to his mother, who it seemed was a little bit skeptical about whole alternative lifestyle thing. You know, homosexuality, right? So my mother was a little offended. She turned to her and she said, "Are you kidding? They have the greatest life together. They eat out, they see shows." They eat out, they see shows. (Laughter) That's the name of the show, they eat out, they -- that's on my tombstone when I die. "He ate out, he saw shows," right?
So in editing these clips, I didn't have the audacity to edit a clip of me singing at Joe's Pub. So you'll have to, like, go check it out and come see me or something. Because it's mortifying, and yet it feels ... I don't know how to put this. I feel as little comfort as possible is a good thing, you know. And at least, you know, in my case, because if I just do one thing all the time, I don't know, I get very, very bored. I bore very easily. And you know, I don't say that I do everything well, I just say that I do a lot of things, that's all. And I kind of try not to look back, you know. Except, I guess, that's what staying up every night is about. Like, looking back and thinking, what a fool you made of yourself, you know. But I guess that's okay. Right? Because if you do many things you get to feel lousy about everything, and not just one, you know. You don't master feeling lousy about one thing. Yeah, exactly.
I will show you this next thing, speaking of costumes for operas. I do work with different choreographers. I work with Twyla Tharp a lot, and I work with Mark Morris a lot, who is one of my best friends. And I designed three operas with him. And the most recent one, "King Arthur." I'd been very ingrained in the dance world since I was a teenager. I went to performing arts high school, where I was an actor. And many of my friends were ballet dancers. Again, I don't know where inspiration comes from. I don't know where it comes from. I started making puppets when I was a kid. Maybe that's where the whole inspiration thing started from, puppets, right. And then performing arts high school. There I was in high school, meeting dancers and acting.
And somehow, from there, I got interested in design. I went to Parsons School of Design and then I began my career as a designer. I don't really think of myself as a designer, I don't really think of myself necessarily as a fashion designer. And frankly, I don't really know what to call myself. I think of myself as a ... I don't know what I think of myself as. It's just that. (Laughter) But I must say, this whole thing about being slightly bored all the time that is what -- I think that is a very important thing for a fashion designer. You always have to be slightly bored with everything. And if you're not you have to pretend to be slightly bored with everything. (Laughter)
But I am really a little bored with everything. I always say to my partner, Marissa Gardini, who books everything -- she books everything and she makes everything happen. And she makes all the deals. And I always tell her that I find myself with a lot of time on the computer bridge program. Too much time on computer bridge, which is, you know, like that's so ... somehow, like, about ten years ago I thought that the most unboring place in the world would be like a TV studio, like for a day show. Some kind of day talk show. Because it's all of these things that I love all kind of in one place. And if you ever get bored you can look at another thing, and do another thing and talk about it, right?
And so I had this TV show. And that was a very, very, very big part of my process. Actually, could you roll the clip, please? This is one of my favorite clips of Rosie.
(Video) Isaac Mizrahi: We're back on the set. Hi there.
Rosie O'Donnell: Hello Ben.
IM: Look how cute she looks with this, just a slick back.
Man: Her mother says, "Delish!"
IM: Ah, wow, delish. All right. So now where should I position myself? I want to stay out of the way. I don't want to be -- okay. Here we go. Do you get nervous, Ashleigh?
Ashleigh: Doing what? Cutting hair.
A: Cutting hair? Never, never. I don't think there was ever a day where I cut hair I was nervous. You look so cute already, by the way. You like it? All right. Do you have a problem with looking cute? You want to look cute.
ROD: Of course I want to look cute. IM: Just checking, because some people want to look, you know, aggressively ugly.
ROD: No, not me, no.
IM: You read about all these people who have a lot of money and they have kids and the kids always end up somehow, like, really messed up, you know what I mean? And there's got to be some way to do that, Rosie. Because just because if you're fabulously rich, and fabulously famous, does that mean you shouldn't have kids, because you know they're going to end up getting messed up?
ROD: No, but it means that your priority has to be their well-being first, I think. But you have to make the decision for yourself. My kids are seven, who the hell knows. They're going to be like 14 and in rehab. And they're going to be playing this clip: "I'm such a good mother." My God, this is the shortest I've ever had.
IM: It looks good, yeah?
A: I was going to ask you, you hair --
ROD: No! It's all right -- go crazy.
IM: I feel like it needs to be a little closer down here.
A: Oh no, we're just staging,
ROD: We're just staging it.
IM: Are you freaking out? You look so cute.
ROD: No, I love it. It's the new me.
IM: Oh, it's so fabulous!
ROD: Flock of Rosie. Wooo!
So by the way. Of all the most unboring things in the world, right. I mean, like making someone who's already cute look terrible like that. That is not boring. That is nothing if it's not boring Actually, I read this great quote the other day, which was, "Style makes you feel great because it takes your mind off the fact that you're going to die." Right? And then I realized, that was on my website, and then it said, like, you know, the quote was attributed to me and I thought, oh, I said something, you know, in an interview. I forgot that I said that. But it's really true.
I want to show you this last clip because it's going to my last goodbye. I'll tell you that I cook a lot also. I love to cook. And I often look at things as though they're food. Like I say, oh, you know, would you serve a rotten chicken? Then how could you serve, you know, a beat up old dress or something. How could you show a beat up old dress? I always relate things to kitchen-ry. And so I think that's what it all boils down to. Everything boils down to that.
So check this out. This is what I've been doing because I think it's the most fun thing in the world. It's, like, this website. It's got a lot of different things on it. It's a polymathematical website. We actually shoot segments like TV show segments. And it's kind of my favorite thing in the world. And it just began like in the beginning of February. So who knows. And again, I don't say it's good, I just say it's not boring, right? And here is the last bit.
Video: IM: I have to tell you, I make buttermilk pancakes or buttermilk waffles all the time.
Chef: Do you?
IM: Yeah, but I can never find buttermilk, ever.
IM: You can't find buttermilk at C you can't find buttermilk.
Chef: You can't? IM: It's always low-fat buttermilk.
Chef: No, but that's all it is. IM: Is that all it is?
Chef: Oh, you don't know? Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something interesting.
IM: You know what? Stop laughing. It's not funny. Just because I don't know that whole -- that there's no such thing as whole buttermilk. Sorry, what?
Chef: Well, here's the deal. Let me tell you the deal. In the old days when they used to make butter, you know how you make butter?
IM: Churns?
Chef: For cream?
IM: Yeah, exactly.
Chef: So you take heavy, high-fat milk, which is cream, and you churn it until it separates into these curds and water. The liquid is actually that clear liquid. If you've ever overbeaten your whipped cream, it's actually buttermilk. And that's what it was in the early days. And that's what people used for baking and all sorts of things. Now, the buttermilk that you get is actually low-fat or skim milk.
IM: Excuse me, I didn't know. All right?
Chef: The reason he thought that is because buttermilk is so wonderfully thick and delicious.
IM: Yeah, it is, exactly. So who would think that it was low fat?
Well, that's it. Thank you very much. Happy TED. It's so wonderful here. I love it. I love it. I love it. Thanks. Bye
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